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Forum: All Forums : General Gaming Topics
Category: General Gaming
General chat about gaming and such.
Moderators: foyleman, Foxhound, Mystic, StrYdeR, batistablr, Welshy, DrBiggzz, supersword
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Author Topic: [GENERAL] Guidance needed
UniKorn~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 1291
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 8
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Monday, Jan. 27, 2003 05:20 pm
:) I'm glad that rejecting you didn't turn you down. I don't really like to do it, and evillair really hates to do it so he tells me to do it ;) , but the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. I can't wait to see more of your stuff mate, if you're determined to get there, you'll get there :)
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BinaryC~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 20
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 1
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Monday, Jan. 27, 2003 11:41 pm
Quote
the more I look at UScript the more it reminds me of Java, a language I'm quite familiar with


That's exactly why I will never make an unreal/UT mod.  The time I spent learing Java was usefull only for me to know that I never want to program in Java.  Ever.
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sluggo[tod]~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 16
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 1
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2003 03:00 am
Quote (BinaryC @ Jan. 27 2003, 5:41 pm)
That's exactly why I will never make an unreal/UT mod.  The time I spent learing Java was usefull only for me to know that I never want to program in Java.  Ever.

Oh come on, java's not cobol for pete's sake :). At least Java doesn't feel like being raped by the 49'ers and make your eyes bleed at the same time :).

That being said, Java has it's syntactical problems .. why the heck does main have 3 qualifiers ? :P

Our greatest struggle has been finding mature artists, who's goal is  creating something with a team, or doing the 'unglorious' work. Coding I suppose requires a lot more boring grunt work at times, so perhaps that's why coders tend to not shy away from completing the whole job so much. Either that, or we've just been unlucky that way. The really good, mature, unegotistical artists are too busy to devote as much time to the venture as I'd like to see from them.

Athough other fledgling mods are talking about having more trouble finding a coder. I imagine these things go in waves, and the talent pool is always changing as people mature and find day jobs, or husbands/wives that don't get why they spend so much time on a hobby, etc.

I imagine the same problem can be from insincere talent in any area of the mod community, if you can find someone to do any job who's dedicated, treat them well, you're lucky :).
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Lacutis~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 105
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 4
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2003 05:13 am
Coders are in general not hard to find.

Good Coders on the other hand.....

Also, Unrealscript isn't that bad.

It's actually really easy to make fairly substantial changes to the game by doing a couple subclasses and overriding a function or two.
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BinaryC~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 20
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 1
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2003 06:31 am
I should be more specific, Java is divided into 3 parts:
- Java the language completely sucks.  The syntax is asinine, for example string1 == string2 is the way God intended operators to behave.  string1.equals(string2) is for sinners.  And why tf is 'int' not an object?  If I have an array of objects I can't put an integer in it?!  That wouldn't be so bad if there were some sort of void *, or even pointers, which there isn't :|  The lack of macros is aggravating as well.
- Java the function library is not so bad.  The functions usually have pretty decent interfaces, though they went a little wild with the namespaces.
- Java the idea is pretty cool, until you look deeper.  Write once, run anywhere; that's cool except you end up with programs that look like.. well... Java programs.  The whole object oriented to the extreme you have to respect, but then they screw it up with things like not supporting multiple inheritence (yes I know there's both implements and extends, but that's a hack imho).  Garbage collection sounds good in theory, but sucks in practice.

In short, I have come to believe that Java is merely a circle jerk for academia.
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Alienchild~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 16
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 1
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2003 06:50 am
the reason why you can't do string1 == string2 is pretty straight forward, as a String in java is a class, not a variable
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Sevensins~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 274
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 5
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2003 07:03 am
Quote (Alienchild @ Jan. 28 2003, 12:50 am)
the reason why you can't do string1 == string2 is pretty straight forward, as a String in java is a class, not a variable

operator overloading ++
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Lacutis~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 105
Last: Dec 23, 2006
[view latest posts]
Level 4
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2003 07:44 am
Quote (BinaryC @ Jan. 28 2003, 12:31 am)
I should be more specific, Java is divided into 3 parts:
- Java the language completely sucks.  The syntax is asinine, for example string1 == string2 is the way God intended operators to behave.  string1.equals(string2) is for sinners.  And why tf is 'int' not an object?  If I have an array of objects I can't put an integer in it?!  That wouldn't be so bad if there were some sort of void *, or even pointers, which there isn't :|  The lack of macros is aggravating as well.
- Java the function library is not so bad.  The functions usually have pretty decent interfaces, though they went a little wild with the namespaces.
- Java the idea is pretty cool, until you look deeper.  Write once, run anywhere; that's cool except you end up with programs that look like.. well... Java programs.  The whole object oriented to the extreme you have to respect, but then they screw it up with things like not supporting multiple inheritence (yes I know there's both implements and extends, but that's a hack imho).  Garbage collection sounds good in theory, but sucks in practice.

In short, I have come to believe that Java is merely a circle jerk for academia.

All good points, but they don't apply to UnrealScript thank god.
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BinaryC~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 20
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 1
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Wednesday, Jan. 29, 2003 03:51 am
I know *why* you can't do string1==string2 in Java, I just think it's lame.  why in gods green earth would I want to see if string1 is the same object as string2?  especially in a language with no explicit pointers or references?!?  If for some reason I did want to do that, I could say if &string1 == &string2, except, as stated before, there are no explict references.  Which kind of brings me to another gripe, passing parameters in Java behaves differently for objects than it does for regular types.  If I pass an int, it's passed by value, but if I pass a String, it's passed by reference.  That's BS.  The whole point of object oriented design is so that you can get beyond the physical characteristics of your data and instead focus on the conceptual characteristics.

To be honest I've never really looked deep into Unrealscript, I heard it was Java based and ran away, quickly.  Does it have garbage collecting?  does it suck?  how are parameters passed?  by value or by reference?  can you use pointers?  do objects and basic data types behave the same?  or have the same virtual base?  does == compare value or address? are there macros?  operator overloading?  abstract interfaces?  how are strings handled?  can I treat them like arrays?  or do i have to do the infinately retarded string.getAt() ?  Can I derive a class from a string (for example if i wanted to have strings that automatically performed certain formatting on the characters they contain)?

Personally I think they should make a game which uses perl or php as the scripting language.  php to me is the best language for doing certain sand-box type operations.  It's not strongly typed, and automatically converts, so you can do really really good stuff like this: if ("5" == 5).  If you don't want that behaviour, though, you can do this: if ("5" === 5), which will return false.  It's got hash tables and lists as built in types.  The heavens have opened up for these.  Foreach is the best contruct ever.  You can also use variable variables.  In other words, you can do $foo = "bar"; $$foo == $bar (because $($foo) evaluates to $("bar"), which evaluates to $"bar", which is automatically converted to $bar, and then evaluated).  You can also do that with functions, to make something similar to function pointers without actually using pointers.  If, however, you want to actually use pointers, they have those too (well actually references).  You can do $foo = &$bar so that anytime $foo changes, so does $bar, and vice-versa.  This also works with functions, because functions are merely a type of variable, and are treated as such (as they should be).  The only thing that makes it not very cool is it doesn't support operator overloading or function overloading, and the class implementation is kinda hacky and lame (for example, you have to use $this->var rather than just $var, and I don't think you can override functions in derived classes); though in reality, you don't need those things with all the other love it provides.  Oh yeah, it's also not multi-threaded, but that's not something a mod usually ever has to care about (in other words, the quake3 qvms aren't multithreaded either, quake2 dlls can be, but aren't by default, I doubt UScript is).
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BinaryC~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 20
Last: Dec 23, 2006
[view latest posts]
Level 1
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Wednesday, Jan. 29, 2003 03:55 am
Quote (Alienchild @ Jan. 28 2003, 12:50 am)
the reason why you can't do string1 == string2 is pretty straight forward, as a String in java is a class, not a variable

oh, and string1 is a variable, it's just instantiated from a class rather than a basic data type, but I knew what you meant.
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