I am a veteran player, having played dark forces since the first jedi knight came out; note, I am not claiming to be some great expert, just one that has seen the changes over time.  One thing I see happen especially in multiplayer is the cropping up of special move exploitation.  Although people who do so are lame and usually loose out in the end, I do not mean how people use BS's over and over; what I mean is people who use a special move such as a BS and then spin it wildly using such exploits as YAW settings and comical mouse sensitivity settings.  Usually, Lucasarts or Ravensoft will address such problems such as the 1.04 patch in JK2.

I just wanted to point out that such exploitation is already occuring in Jedi Academy.  I am seeing more and more players use dual sabers, launch the kata that spins the sabers around them, and then shake wildly to make it a shield.  I witnessed such players jump into a crowd of four or more players, do the exploit and get a bunch of cheese kills.  I also, along with some other skilled players, attempted to take down such exploiters using well placed DFA's, thrusts, and blue lunges; although occasionally one will land and kill off the exploiter, in general, the shield like result of the crazy spinning tends to cancel out the countermove and kill off even the most skilled player.  After talking with a bunch of dual saber users (I mainly use single), I get the impression that that move is not supposed to rotate.  I think this exploit really tips the balance that is jedi academy; when I first got the game, I loved how much more balanced it is than JK2.  I bet a lot of people will flame me for this post, which I don't care if they do.  I simply hope that Raven or Lucasarts notes this issue and does something about it in the next patch.

Balance is the ability to feignt, make a move, avoid, and counterstrike.  If some lame "gamers" have found a way to rack up points by eliminating without skill the counterstrikes against them, how can there be balance?

if u want a skilled fight then play the duel game, sorry but not all ppl play for the star wars thrill but to kill and get points. If charging into a group with a dual saber gets them kills they will do it. Also this is a new weapon so ppl only know its attacking powers after a while we will learn its weakness i.e. after the katta move its very vunerable and with all its flips easier to push off edge. One thing that bugs me is the lack of autoteam balancing - played ctf were it was 12v4 and the 12 kept saying stop whinging - i mean com on just a tad easy for them

The reason you're having troubles DFAing one who uses the dual shield is not that it makes them invulnerable but rather that the red and yellow DFAs are close to useless. Try using the red DFA on an unarmed enemy and you'll see . When people uses the dual saber shield I just go in with a regular overhead swing... it works most of the time.

Not that I want the DFAs to be as in JK2 because I enjoy not seeing the spammage... if they were just a bit useful it would be nice though.

I do agree with the general gist of the previous two comments; however, I believe that both of you may have misunderstood what I was referring to in general.

I agree skilled fights are in duels; in fact I mainly play powerduels, duels and sieges.  I also agree that every move as Raven meant them to be used has a weakness.  Similarly, I agree that DFA is not as useful as it was in the past.

But I am not referring to the simple dual saber "shield" kata where the sabers float around in circles; I am talking about perverting the kata by doing the kata and then spinning the player around and around in a whirlwind like motion.  Think Tazmanian devil.  Although it is most useful in FFA, I have seen some people use this exploit in powerduel to ruin the total balance of the game and set up a long, no-skill winning streak.

Against a dual saber "shield" kata that isn't shaken, I have killed many people with a red DFA straight into the center; a red DFA that connects with the head region damage box that is undefended as it is during a non-exploited kata can take off 100 hit points (I experimented with a friend).  Similarly, a blue lunge into an opponents kata that connects dead on with the head can also take off that much and leave the player countering virtually undamaged.  So I agree there is a weakness to that and all other katas that can be used to counter.

BUT when a player exploits the kata using YAW or sensitivity, doing a counter will at least take off half of the countering player's life and is much less likely to kill off the lamer.  The sabers are flying around the exploiter so randomly and frequently that it is blind luck in landing a counter.  I do not believe this is meant to be.  I may be wrong, and Raven meant for this to happen.  But I hope not.

I agree... I see what you mean now. It was like when you could turn while using the red DFA. I really don't understand how they missed it. They must have been so fond of their new moves that they wanted them to be too powerful. The old specials are useless compared to the katas. They need to restrict all the katas like other specials... no moving while doing them. Then balance will be restored.

To me it seems like they reworked the damage system so no matter what move you make it is your saber (location hit + time hit) that sets the damage not the move. I can do the same amount with regular overhead swing as a red DFA. I like that. The special moves should be used because of the move not extra damage.

If you time your attack just as the saber shield is about to close up, move in with a red stance right strafe swing (still the longest reaching attack in the game) then crouch, you can slip right under the sabers and smack the guy for serious damage.

I've also had good luck softening guys up with a couple hits, then when they do the special, land a DFA just as the sabers pop back into his hands. I get a handful of kills this way, and a lot of satisfaction. ;)

Just remember if you DO kill them, their sabers isntantly stop doing damage so if you think they're a bit bruised, lay into them and hope you dodge the shield long enough to kill him.

Another thing to remember is that anyone doing a special attack is completely vulnerable to force attacks, I generally tap force push to get them away from me and they fly across the room. If they do it near a pit, I just laugh. ;)

I would agree on some dual saber moves. They are over-rated and easily to do with getting alot of fast kills. I use a staff, I dont go insane on combo moves. I use special attacks unpredictiablly in thier own patterns of uniqe combos. Mind you I never repeate what I do in a round literally. If I am surrounded by guys use use the duck and saber move around me with dual blades. I get out fast, wait till they are done and rain down with a combo. Only combo's I do use more then I should are the one's for more defensive purposes. Foward/Left/Right/Back+Primary(and)Jump*Together*, This combo gets your butt out of a tight situation. I found myself easily surrounded by 6 people. 1 guy was being a force lamer but using push. So I did the minuet waltz to get my arse out of there. Thanks to his help I got a few kills because they where forced into me. Utterly defenseless.

One of these smaller issues should be worked on. I mean, if anything to change gameplay would have to seriously give better options when you host a server or a dedicated one for better admin controls. As opposed to fixing the game entirely. Most of the staff moves are fixed, You input the controls. And your only going one way and no other. With dual sabers. Sadly they need to be fixed, so the person has no real movement.

what they need to do is when the dual saber kata is going, it should freeze the player, kinda like the other katas, even though they are moving, they still have no real control

Yeah, but freezing the player would render the move just about useless. After that, the twirl of the sabers should be made controllable to allow it at least one special attack which is effective. Otherwise, most people will never again trudge the path of dual sabers to learn them efficiently. It'd be a waste of time...

I think the entire game needs an overhaul, a completely different point of view. Perhaps one like Blade of Darkness ?

-Celorfie

Wouldn't be happening if this game had PunkBuster. PunkBuster can warn and kick for cvar violations set by admin.