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Forum: All Forums : Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force
Category: Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force General
General game questions, comments and chat.
Moderators: foyleman, Foxhound, Mystic, StrYdeR, batistablr, Welshy, DrBiggzz, supersword
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Author Topic: Flowing water on Mars...
Gal Dukat~rb
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Since: Dec 23, 2006
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Category: Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force General
Posted: Friday, Dec. 8, 2006 10:34 am
Agent, I'm actually curious, since I haven't read it closely enough recently enough, but which part of the Bible specifically mentions that there probably aren't any intelligent life forms outside of Earth?  And are we confining this to the Old Testament or is the New included in this, too?
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Agent007~rb
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Posted: Friday, Dec. 8, 2006 02:41 pm
Well, it's not specific, but it takes a minute to reason on...  And it's all based on Genesis.

Basically, you would have to understand that the issue brought up in the Garden of Eden was that of God's right to rule his own creation.  i.e. Satan convinced Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad (meaning the right to determine what is good/bad, not just experience it) and thus rebel against God. Then, you would see that the whole reason we're still in this mess is because God is giving Satan enough time to be proven wrong in his claims that man can succeed on his own.  

That's why man has had thousands of years to try every sort of rule, and so far none have lasted.  The reason they've been allowed this much time is because there was an audience at Eden.  So if God had just destroyed Satan and Adam and Eve, (1) he'd be a liar, since he said that Adam and Eve's children would live on the Earth forever and that nothing can change his will, and (2) some of the angels might start to question whether Satan had a point and God was just afraid of anyone challenging him.  But by giving Satan and humans millenia to try to find peace and security apart from him, God will let them prove themselves liars.

So, if you believe that to be true, then there can't be intelligent extraterrestrial life elsewhere in the universe.  Because if there was, they would have either (1) proved faithful to God or (2) turned away like Adam and Eve.  In the first case, God could have just wiped the rebels on Earth out and started over, pointing to the other planet as proof that his rule was best, and in the second, there would've been need of yet another redeemer or 'Jesus Christ.'  But the bible says "Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sin." (1 Peter 3:18), so that's not the case.

So there you go.  Again, that takes a lot of faith/understanding of the Bible, so I don't expect it to change anyone's mind, but I'm just explaining why I  don't believe in ET intelligent life.
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Lord Dave~rb
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Posted: Friday, Dec. 8, 2006 10:24 pm
As I said, the bible itself doesn't rule it out.  However the bible doesn't rule out the earth revolving around the sun and we all know how that bit of knowledge upset the church.  My point is quite simply that if humans ever thought that the universe may not have been made just for them, then they may actually question if they're as special as religion says.  Remember, in Christianity and Judaism, Man is better then Angels in the eyes of God.  So just think if we find out that maybe we're not the center of the universe like we think we are.  Sure it probably won't cause massive chaos (thanks in part to the wide availability of information) but I will say for certain that it will cause some extreme thinkers to do something very drastic.
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Corridale~rb
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Posted: Saturday, Dec. 9, 2006 12:53 am
What if god is an alien? Think about it for a second, it may be possible
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Agent007~rb
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Posted: Saturday, Dec. 9, 2006 03:12 pm
Quote (Lord Dave @ Dec. 08 2006, 4:24 pm)
Remember, in Christianity and Judaism, Man is better then Angels in the eyes of God.

Man may have certain privileges, but there's no question that angels are far more powerful, and have many privileges of their own...

(Philippians 2:5-7) 5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.

(Hebrews 2:6-7) 6 But a certain witness has given proof somewhere, saying: “What is man that you keep him in mind, or [the] son of man that you take care of him? 7 You made him a little lower than angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the works of your hands.

If only "Christians" would read their Bibles...
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Lord Dave~rb
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Posted: Saturday, Dec. 9, 2006 10:26 pm
Well power yeah, but it is not power, but God's Love.  Plus didn't Lucifer rebel because God gave so much attention to man?

Anyway my point still stands.  The average person will handle it well.  The extremests who interpret such works to a point where there can be no deviation will do something drastic.  Just look at the Muslum extremest violence simply because one group of people don't like the way another group of people act.

But let's not go into that.

Oh and I side with Corridale.  What if god was an alien?  There are certainly enough references that could be interprited as technology rather then divine power.

(water to wine = powdered wine mixed with water)
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Agent007~rb
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Posted: Sunday, Dec. 10, 2006 12:24 am
Quote (Lord Dave @ Dec. 09 2006, 4:26 pm)
Well power yeah, but it is not power, but God's Love.  Plus didn't Lucifer rebel because God gave so much attention to man?

That's nowhere in the Bible.

Anyway, my only point was that there's no real reason for panic if bacteria is found on Mars or something.  As for Christendom, I think they'd do what they always do... Adapt to a changing environment by changing their teachings/doctrine.  If the world at large is okay with it, by golly, God must be too!

As for God being an alien... well, if you use the definition: extraterrestrial, then yeah.   He's a creature that's not of this Earth.  But is he a little green man from another planet?  No.  Just... no.
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YummyPork~rb
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Since: Dec 23, 2006
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Category: Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force General
Posted: Sunday, Dec. 10, 2006 08:04 pm
Quote (Agent007 @ Dec. 09 2006, 4:24 pm)
*snip* But is he a little green man from another planet?  No.  Just... no.

So, he's a little green woman from another planet?     :;):
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Lord Dave~rb
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Category: Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force General
Posted: Sunday, Dec. 10, 2006 08:50 pm
Well if you REALLY want to go out on a limb, the bible has a very key phrase in it "in his image".
Now if I was an alien race who wanted to make a slave race I'd probably use alot of my genetic material as a base and work from there.  The next step I'd do is test them to see if I got that whole disobedience thing removed.  Hence the Tree.

Of course it could just be a story where the actual creator of said story didn't want to create something completely new AND wanted to explain why Women shouldn't be allowed to do anything important.  But we'll never know.  Unless an Alien Race comes down, explains that they've been watching us for over 10,000 years, and shows us that we developed rather then be poofed into existence.
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sandman_qc~rb
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Since: Dec 23, 2006
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Category: Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force General
Posted: Sunday, Dec. 10, 2006 09:11 pm
*Cough*  That's a thread about WATER people... *cough*

Anyway, I recall someone from this very board who said a while back, based on his religious beliefs,  that we'll NEVER find ANY form of life out there...  Including bacterias and microbes...  We'll see...

And I agree with Dave about some religions changing there teaching/doctrine.  2 words: Christian rock...
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