One thing I never get is why they dont just clip the crap out of their stock maps anyway, sure it'd mean more brushes but for stock maps you want them to be as secure as possible

ye, i thought that too

If the jump/glitch doesn't make you invulnerable, its legit. You can still get shot, just like everybody else. The only difference is that your adapting to you environment. Its not your fault if the other players don't think to look in unusual places for you. That's war. If this was a real-life battle, I don't think anyone would hesitate about getting into hard-to-find positions. Its just part of the game.

I don't want this to sound like a flame or anything, but I find that the people who complain about jumpers the most tend to be the ones who, for various reasons, aren't able to do the jumps themselves.

It's really not as bad as you think. Its a fact of CoD4life, oh well.

={W}=DEVIL writes...

If it's part of the game why didn't IW just put a ladder in their for people so everyone has a fair advantage.


There's nothing wrong map jumping on your own closed server but when going into pubs and jumping to stat pad or spawn kill...
You may not do, but the video you post up of yourself doing it only helps so many more people with bad intentions do it. In essence the video makers of map jumping are contributing to the ever growing world of cheaters/glitchers.

edited on Nov. 29, 2007 10:56 am by Sparks.

Jumping onto a roof or going up some stairs higher than anyone else isnt an unfair advantage, its a use of a skillset than anyone else can develop. Unfair advantage means using something that other people can't use without downloading or modding third party devices to boost their computer's performance or rendering of the game. Anybody can execute jumps, and you're just a vulnerable to bullets whether or not you are on a jump spot or on the ground.

Now granted, going under the map is not cool, because you can't be killed unless someone follows you. But going up on a roof, or hiding in a tree, or going up stairs really far isn't unfair because A) people can follow you and B) You can still be shot from where you are. All it takes is a killcam or a player who actually pays attention.

Also, don't forget that this is a level design and modding website. Knowing the extent to which a player can navigate his or her envionment in the game is essential to designing your own maps, so even if you still think that jumping is "unfair", it is still good that we see it in action here so we know what to expect when people play our own maps.

={W}=DEVIL writes...

Why is it that map jumpers have a nack for contracting themselves trying to defend map jumping as a fair advantage.

A) You seem pretty tolerant to cheating/glitching/hacking if you're saying it must come from a third party source. Anyone remember the sharking in MOH:AA... pretty sure that wasn't third party, and if you're going to say something like that is fair game just because it took a skillset to do it and the person was kill-able and not under the map entirely, something's sketchy.

B) You can't do most jumps unless you have a high FPS, so people usually need to turn down the graphics for a boost in rendering or play with dvars that aren't cheat protected. People don't need a third party app to do that.

C) Like I said, it isn't fair unless it's easily accessible by everyone, otherwise you break the flow of the intended gameplay. Which can be blamed on the IW mappers, they may have their reasons for not simply clipping all of the intended inaccessible areas.

D) It worries me you're saying it's ok to glitch in maps to stat pad in public servers, I expected mappers and modders here to be of better profession.

E) Check the Strat guide for CoD4, most of the areas the jumps are made the guide shows on the maps as inaccessible. Not because the editors couldn't make the jumps, because those spots aren't intended for gameplay.

F) The only time I would call map jumping in public servers fair is if I knew without a doubt in my mind everyone in the server were map jumpers (which was known to everyone) AND running the same hardware.

Can't really change anyone's opinion nor do I want to try, just stating my opinion.
If someone wants to abide to or defend cheating/glitching/stat padding, that's their deal.

edited on Nov. 29, 2007 11:34 am by Sparks.

You can insult me personally as much you'd like, I'm not going to go there because I don't think this discussion should be dragged down into a flame war. Hacking and jumping are two different things. Sharking is different as well. Sharking gives you a speed boost, makes you almost impossible to kill, and is excessively annoying to those who fall victim to it. Hacking lets you see through walls, automatically aims for you, etc. etc.

Jumping lets you get onto a roof or a wall or up some blocked stairs. You're still inside the map. You aren't moving differently. You're not blocking bullets. You're no watching everyone through walls. You're not letting a program aim for you. You're just in a different place than most of your teammates.

As soon as the enemy catchs on to where your jump spot is, they'll look for you. At that point, its just as dangerous to be in the jump as it is to be on the ground.

Also, raising your framerate to jump farther is still fair, because anybody else can do it. Also, don't forget that in order to effectively shut down a jumper you don't need to be able to do the jump yourself. You just need to point your gun at him once you find him.

If you are using a program or packet-editor to somehow boost your computer's performance, then I guess that would be unfair, even though somebody could duplicate that framerate boost legitametly.

Buying more RAM or a new graphics card boosts your framerate, so does that qualify as hacking as well?

In battle, the enemy will always try to get into a position that is both difficult to locate and hard to attack. Its the same thing in this game. The jumpers are adapting to their environment, and the non-jumpers will do the same. I've been doing jumps for a long time, and I'll tell you one thing: most of the jumps are nice for kicks and giggles, but don't give you much of a tactical advantage. You die alot trying to do the jumps, and once they know where your spots are, you might as well just stop jumping. Its really not that big of an advantage. Its just fun (thats what the game is for, after all).

Edit: Just wanted to make this clear... I'm not supporting cheating or stat padding. I'm only arguing that jumping is a legit strategy in servers. Hacks are bad, and stat padding is pathetic.

edited on Nov. 29, 2007 11:38 am by ={W}=DEVIL

Who said I was insulting you or starting a flame war... you can't be civilized in discussions because someone doesn't agree with you?

I'm out anyway.
Said what I wanted to say and you keep coming up with contradictions to your arguments.
And you're starting to get too fragile so I don't want the ban hammer for that.


edited on Nov. 29, 2007 11:39 am by Sparks.

Well I thank you for editing your post. When I first read it I was being called and unprofessional cheater, lol. And who's fragile? I just said you can say whatever you'd like, I just want to argue the point lol.

I should have joined the debate club...

edit: What contradictions? This isn't anything personal, I just enjoy a good debate. Come on, let's work this out. We can both be civilized

edited on Nov. 29, 2007 11:41 am by ={W}=DEVIL

={W}=DEVIL writes...

Contradiction to what you said earlier, where people can jump onto roofs and kill people without anyone knowing (every server doesn't have killcam and most have it off for 360 and PC, so don't even try to go there ).

Stat padding.

I'm not saying every jumper stat pads, but there are some and posting videos to the public doesn't help.

I guess my main point is before leaving this discussion:
If jumpers actually cared about the good of jumping and helping the devs patch that stuff up, they wouldn't show off the videos on YouTube or MapMonkeys for everyone to see like "Oh man, look what my clan did!"

One can sugar coat it as much as they want, but map jumping in public servers only leads to stat padding.

I just hope mappers here don't stoop that low to mesh with map jumping or even leave intended exploits in their maps.

I'm out, got things to do.

edited on Nov. 29, 2007 11:49 am by Sparks.