So do I understand you right that you mean innovation is when a previously invented idea gets picked up again and realised better or slightly different? That´s not my understanding.

Yes, IMO there aren´t many games that are truly innovative (there are some but not many), but like I said, it doesn´t really matter that much. It doesn´t make the games bad.


For me it seems that you (and a lot of other people as well) totally overrate the idea of innovation in games. Quake4 can very well have the same refinement and little innovative twists on existing ideas Quake2 and Quake3 had, so it´s a bit too early to be disappointed with the Q4 feature list.

No, you got me wrong, there are many games that TRY to be innovative, they've got the right idea but they fail implementing it. To me, a truly innovative game implements ideas that might already be developed but not yet implemented... so developers that manage to convert the innovative idea to an innovative game ARE innovative to me.

[edit]
D'oh! Forgot the most important part: if a game is not innovative it doesn't mean that it automatically is a bad one ;)
[/edit]

There's a difference (imho) between having an idea and actually implementing it. I'm sure that many gamers/people have great ideas for a game or a movie but they're not able to bring it to life the way they want.

Tetzlaff, you know I'm not disappointed because of the feature list released by Raven/id, I just don't share the same "it's gonna rock, it's gonna be quake-ish 'cause it's QUAKE!!!" kind of attitude.

Signed: TalanOFF

OK I think I understand you better now

I´m rather critical with Quake4 as well, because the Quake series is my favourite FPS series.

Quote (TalanOFF @ June 08 2005, 6:34 am)

There's a difference (imho) between having an idea and actually implementing it. I'm sure that many gamers/people have great ideas for a game or a movie but they're not able to bring it to life the way they want.

That´s true, there are many examples for good and *innovative* ideas in games were the developers just failed to implement them properly.

Well what you want to add or edit to a nearly perfect shooter in 1st place?

- Better 3D-Engine  (done)
- Overworking the existing characters, models, textures the hall visual content! (done)
- Fixing existing bugs or flaws from previous versions (done)
- Continoue where you stopped talking the story (done)

My suggestion:
- Adding a low ressource(computer) mode (sp + mp) -something not uber cfg tweak something  a dynamic feature :-)
Wouldnt it be surprising you could play it with very low performance too?
- Adding a "fairness" mode or feature for multiplayer gameing (eg. all player get same ping -  (of course configurable)); :-)
Try to implement something that gives every player the same enviromental(ping).
You need a constant minimum ping to join specific server - like (50).

- Adding something new (done)

New is:
News super secret weaponary!
New weapon mods - well not really new cause mods done this before already - or quade dmg mod is similar but not directly weapon based anway!
New maps (of course)
For the singleplayer the overall scenario with beeing part of teh ultimate rhino squade.

And about teh gravity gun:
Some1 pointed out this gun is invented by Hl or whtever.... actually there been quake2 levels (the powa of the engine itself - gravity modding is just some value) with modified gravity - now with an extra device (gun) ok - sounds like fun!

What is importend for success?
- longplay gameplay fun (multiplayer)

I just hope raven isnt to focused in makeing a neat singleplayer campaign- while at least 60-70% of the buyers anyway go for multiplayer experience with all the action! :-)

And dont blame me for never played a singleplayer campaign yet (lol)
But i will check it out at least this time sounds intresting!

Cheers

Tezlaff, I'm glad we sorted that out ;)
It's the same as always: wait and see. Though, I don't want to cut off the discussion, not at all. I'm looking forward to reading new ideas from people with other opinion ;)

Signed: TalanOFF