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Forum: All Forums : Soldier of Fortune
Category: SoFII General
General game questions, comments and chat.
Moderators: foyleman, Foxhound, Mystic, StrYdeR, batistablr, Welshy, DrBiggzz, supersword
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Author Topic: Do you think the Russian storming of
pollmak~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 778
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 7
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 12:19 pm
I’m curious to hear you views. It must have been a tough call for those in charge to send the Special Forces take out the terrorists.

Say does any one know what weapons the Russian Special Forces/Anti-Terrorist forces use?

My interest in real war world events and Terrorist activity has unsurprisingly increases since playing SOF2. Perhaps we could ask Raven to get John Mullins to add his views for our general interest. I would imagine he is a pro at co ordination these type of situations
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arkanis50~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 736
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 6
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 12:43 pm
Given the location of the siege, the number of terrorists involved and the fact these terrorists are highly serious in their intentions - this was always a very tough situation for any special forces team to resolve.

If it wasn't for the use of this nerve gas then quite possibly the hostage takers could have detonated some explosives and there could have been 200 or 300+ dead. Although I do not agree with the use of this agent, since it isn't wasn't meant for such closed areas against weak and elderly people - and if it is BZ (I think that is the name of it) then it isn't an exactly legal chemical agent, although it isn't illegal either... the russians should have known the effects.

It's a catch 22 as far as I see... it is unlikely the terrorists would have backed down, if the russians didn't use gas then more people may have died, they used it they killed 100+ people - it's a tough call to make.

I'm no expert, just my opinion.

Ark
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pollmak~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 778
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 7
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 12:54 pm
The agent was meant for use against fit young soldiers, not people with asthma, general health problems and the old and young. What I found quite interesting on the TV footage from a SOF2 perspective, was the dead Terrorist. Allot seemed to be blood soaked around the upper body, and possible the head area. I thought Headshot straightaway.
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arkanis50~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 736
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 6
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 01:09 pm
Quote (pollmak @ Oct. 28 2002, 06:54 am)
What I found quite interesting on the TV footage from a SOF2 perspective, was the dead Terrorist. Allot seemed to be blood soaked around the upper body, and possible the head area. I thought Headshot straightaway.

I'd imagine it isn't too hard to shoot a man in the head when his nervous system is shot, and can barely move in a co-ordinated manner - especially for Special Forces.

As I say, Russia anticipated casualties regardless of what they did, it was a case of using their best judgement, some may call it 'taking a gamble', to minimise this number. Either way there are a lot of families who lost family.

Ark
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Rotor Head~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 221
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 4
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 02:51 pm
just like russians "nuke them and let god sort them out"!! :s1:
:s27:  :s29:  :s27:








:s31:
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.LeMMiNG.~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 60
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 3
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 03:11 pm
on dutch tv was a russian expert on these gasses and he told the media that the concentrations used were too high and caused twice as much victims as nescesary...

this means that the estimated number casualties from using the nerve gas would be like 60 people.

thats nice to know when your waiting for the speznaz to free you.

On the other hand, using a textbook method would be impossible.. there is no way you can filter out a couple of terrorists from 1000 hostages...

but expecting casualties from the use of a weapon... sounds a little unethical to me... those folks didn't stand a chance...

BUT... one thing i know... keep all guns, i want nervegasnades in a possible new patch  :s10:
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The Guvner~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 854
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 7
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 03:53 pm
Quote
On the other hand, using a textbook method would be impossible.. there is no way you can filter out a couple of terrorists from 1000 hostages...


When I first heard about it, I thought that they might gas them. Appears that they did. You couldn't expect a major gun fight as you run the risk of having hostages getting in the way.

My own opinion on the gas etc..is that the Russian army decided they would stop the Chechen's at all cost, even if it meant killing there own. Life is still pretty cheap in Russia.
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pollmak~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 778
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 7
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 04:17 pm
True true GUV life does seem to be cheap in Russia…..but thanks to out modern technological advancements as a species, we can make life cheap on a global scale, and have it broadcast to everybody in the world in all languages, as well as simulate how cheap life is through various forms of entertainment. My current favourite form of cheap life entertainment being SOF2.  

The whole irony is that in this century we (mankind) as a species have successfully managed to wipe out over 100 million of our own kind.
If you can accept death as a simple and natural part of life, life then becomes really simple. #### I die a couple of times each night on SOF2, and have got used to it. LOL.
:s5:
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MoNoXBooGie~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 3176
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 9
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 04:21 pm
This gas shouldn't have been used at all. It has been tested in Vietnam already and also on a small scale in the Yugoslavian war. Every time the results were bad, causing way too many casualities, so how the #### did they come up to use this weapon in a theatre with hundreds of people in it? Of course it's easy to talk afterwards, but they should have taken more time to reconsider any other options.
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Mr. Melon Popper~rb
General Member
Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 27
Last: Dec 23, 2006
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Level 2
Category: SoFII General
Posted: Monday, Oct. 28, 2002 04:49 pm
I think they handled it in the best manner available. I agree the gas was too strong for some of the hostages who had been without good rations of food and water for 72 hours. BUT had it not been that strong then the terrorists (who are mostly young and in good condition) would have been detonating the explosives booby trapped around the theatre and even to themselves.  The gas overwhelmed everyone so fast. There was a report of a female hostage inside who covered their nose/mouth and was able to avoid passing out initially and watched everyone go down like flies.  During this time she saw terrorists running to put on masks and protect themselves only to go into convulvions and die before they were able to equip their masks.  Only 1 hostage was actually shot after the gas came in, that gives you an idea of how fast and owerwhelming it was. So in that regard I think they did the right thing. Yes 100+ civilians died, but if the terrorists detonate their explosives it could have been 500+ people dead. Then we would all be jumping down the russians throats for not doing anything. Its a no win situation and my personal belief is that you CAN NOT give in to these kinds of people.  It will just reinforce their behavior into thinking that they can accomplish political adgendas by using terrorism.
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