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Category: General Gaming
General chat about gaming and such.
Moderators: foyleman, Foxhound, Mystic, StrYdeR, batistablr, Welshy, DrBiggzz, supersword
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Author Topic: BO2 PC Details. No Dedicated Servers or Mod Tools
{GITS}TheCleaner
General Member
Since: Apr 8, 2012
Posts: 58
Last: Oct 4, 2013
[view latest posts]
Level 3
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 05:34 am
Quote:
What anti-cheat will be used?
Anti-cheat is a top priority for Call of DutyŽ: Black Ops II. We have developed our own proprietary server-side anti-cheat technology which will work alongside VAC to deliver the most advanced detection and banning capabilities of any Call of Duty game to date. We have also improved our player reporting system to make it the most effective way that you can help us catch cheaters. And starting on launch day we will have a full-time dedicated pc anti-cheat team focused solely on detecting and banning cheaters. We have a zero tolerance policy on cheating. Cheaters bans are permanent.

Will Black Ops have Matchmaking or Dedicated Servers?
Both! Call of DutyŽ: Black Ops II PC combines matchmaking with secure ranked dedicated servers. This means that you get into Public Matches or League Play via matchmaking lobbies. It is easy to party up and play with your friends. You can adjust your classes or scorestreaks between matches. It also means that every Public or League match is hosted on a dedicated server running in one of our high bandwidth datacenters around the globe.

Will you release the server files?
No. We are keeping the server files secure to protect the game from hacking and cheating and ensure the ranking and progression system integrity.

Can I rent a server?
No. We are providing a huge number of servers around the world at no extra charge – plenty for everyone to enjoy. And we will administer the servers.

Will there be mod tools?
No. As we continually improve and advance our in-house tools for our own content teams we are unable to provide consumer tools due to increased technical requirements, licensing restrictions, and technology dependencies.


SOURCE

edited on Sep. 29, 2012 06:16 am by {GITS}TheCleaner
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Tally
General Member
Since: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 819
Last: Oct 26, 2012
[view latest posts]
Level 7
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 06:05 am
Can an admin please change the highly misleading and factually incorrect title of this thread? There ARE Dedicated servers. They just aren't publicly available ones to rent. They are all officially administered by Activision.

Quote:
Will Black Ops have Matchmaking or Dedicated Servers?
Both! Call of DutyŽ: Black Ops II PC combines matchmaking with secure ranked dedicated servers..


Seems some people can't simply report the news. They want to make it up as they go along as well.
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zeroy
General Member
Since: Nov 26, 2007
Posts: 1060
Last: Mar 12, 2014
[view latest posts]
Level 8
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 06:38 am
They might be called dedicated servers but even renting aside it wont be what we are used to. Read closely to find that there is likely not going to be a server browser as all is handled via matchmaking now, finding a server where friends are or via dictated playlist will all be done via matchmaking. No picking / choosing. At least this is what i gather reading this:

Call of DutyŽ: Black Ops II PC combines matchmaking with secure ranked dedicated servers. This means that you get into Public Matches or League Play via matchmaking lobbies {...} It also means that every Public or League match is hosted on a dedicated server

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{GITS}TheCleaner
General Member
Since: Apr 8, 2012
Posts: 58
Last: Oct 4, 2013
[view latest posts]
Level 3
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 06:40 am
Drama Queen [rolleyes]

Edit: Sorry zeory, not you, we posted at the same time [wink]
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Tally
General Member
Since: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 819
Last: Oct 26, 2012
[view latest posts]
Level 7
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 07:17 am
{GITS}TheCleaner writes...
Quote:
Drama Queen [rolleyes]

Edit: Sorry zeory, not you, we posted at the same time [wink]


You call me a drama queen, yet you're the one trying to instigate drama with false provocative titles. I call that hypocrisy.
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Tally
General Member
Since: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 819
Last: Oct 26, 2012
[view latest posts]
Level 7
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 07:24 am
zeroy writes...
Quote:
They might be called dedicated servers but even renting aside it wont be what we are used to. Read closely to find that there is likely not going to be a server browser as all is handled via matchmaking now, finding a server where friends are or via dictated playlist will all be done via matchmaking. No picking / choosing. At least this is what i gather reading this:

Call of DutyŽ: Black Ops II PC combines matchmaking with secure ranked dedicated servers. This means that you get into Public Matches or League Play via matchmaking lobbies {...} It also means that every Public or League match is hosted on a dedicated server



I don't need to read anything. It's matchmaking. Matchmaking is mutually exclusive to a server browser. There is nothing wrong with matchmaking. It is actually very fun. The only thing the vast majority of COD players want is to get rid of the P2P backbone that the modern warfare series runs on. Treyarch have done that.

As for whether or not they are "real" dedicated servers, that has been gone over before with Black Ops 1. The definition of a dedicated server is one which is dedicated to the task of a server. As such they are dedicated. You can't change that definition by introducing unwarranted conditions. Now, apparently, a dedicated server is one which has to be rentable. So, by that definition, Google doesn't use dedicated servers because you can't rent them; Microsoft doesn't use dedicated servers because you can't rent them; etc; etc. It's a Reductio ad absurdum.

Seriously, BO2 uses dedicated servers. The servers are dedicated to the task of running the game. Ergo they are dedicated servers.

This was all predictably coming. I actually predicted this would happen: that the developers would get so sick of server owners abusing their powers by kicking/banning for class restrictions, and thereby breaking the whole idea of a ranked game, that the developers would find a way to FORCE us to play a ranked game, with no way around it. I said they could do that in a number of ways, and I offered 2 suggestions: 1) a ranked server policy; 2) removal of the kick/ban feature in order to stop kicking/banning for class restrictions.

This is how Treyarch have done it: they've taken away the ability for the public to run ranked servers at all. No need for a ranked server policy, and no need to remove the kick/ban feature.

Infinity Ward also famously laid the blame for IWNet at the feet of COD4 server admins for trying to make COD4 ranked gameplay into unranked gameplay in the same way - by kicking/banning for class restrictions. They answered that problem with IWNet. Where you can't kick or ban for class restrictions.

I have said all along that developers wont stand for this sort of abuse of their wishes for very long. A lot of people tried to shoot me down in flames by saying this sort of thing would never happen; that they don't care about PC gameplay; that abusing ranked gameplay is not a concern of theirs. Activision have once again answered us and shown that they DO CARE, and that they wont put up with it. Keeping a game ranked IS A CONCERN of theirs. If server admins are going to abuse their ability to host a ranked game, and try to turn it into an unranked game by kicking/banning for class restrictions, Activsion will simply FORCE them to abide by their wishes. This is their ultimate answer to that: they've simply removed the public's ability to host ranked games.
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zeroy
General Member
Since: Nov 26, 2007
Posts: 1060
Last: Mar 12, 2014
[view latest posts]
Level 8
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 08:46 am
Tally writes...
Quote:
zeroy writes...
I don't need to read anything.


.. and i wasn't addressing you or anyone in particular, i guess this what i get for forgetting the usual "IMO" in front of my statement.

To me, without the ability to rent and run your own server, with no server browsers to pick location, style, etc.. those "dedicated servers" are not real ones. Its my own interpretation, nothing more - looking at the uproar since the news was posted I tend to think im not on my own either!

Unless Trey have come up with some ultra-fantastic way of making matchmaking work like clan servers did, i cant see how its going to be workable for any sizeable community / clans. Im thinking about playing with certain rules, meeting at certain time on the same server, the list is endless.

Again this is my opinion, you are welcome to agree or disagree to it. Talking about disagreement, the theory of abusive admins having their owns rules made me smile, totally new to me, I had thought this was a BF thing - where its still happening and always will anyway.

Again imo, Treyarch is genuinely trying to bring a good/clean experience of BO2 on PC and in particular bringing Esports big time into COD - Nevermind mods if Treyarch have all thats needed to tailor the game for Esports. No doubts they have seen the PC numbers falling and already, since MW2 a lot of Clans/Communities are gone so this is just an extension of whats been happening since MW2 or so.

Pretty sad day for COD followers, especially those who enjoyed the server hosting/admin and for all clans of course. I cant say I am surprised however. Tomorrow is another day [jumping]
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Tally
General Member
Since: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 819
Last: Oct 26, 2012
[view latest posts]
Level 7
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 10:18 am
zeroy writes...
Quote:
Tally writes...
Quote:
zeroy writes...
I don't need to read anything.


.. and i wasn't addressing you or anyone in particular, i guess this what i get for forgetting the usual "IMO" in front of my statement.

To me, without the ability to rent and run your own server, with no server browsers to pick location, style, etc.. those "dedicated servers" are not real ones. Its my own interpretation, nothing more - looking at the uproar since the news was posted I tend to think im not on my own either!

Unless Trey have come up with some ultra-fantastic way of making matchmaking work like clan servers did, i cant see how its going to be workable for any sizeable community / clans. Im thinking about playing with certain rules, meeting at certain time on the same server, the list is endless.

Again this is my opinion, you are welcome to agree or disagree to it. Talking about disagreement, the theory of abusive admins having their owns rules made me smile, totally new to me, I had thought this was a BF thing - where its still happening and always will anyway.

Again imo, Treyarch is genuinely trying to bring a good/clean experience of BO2 on PC and in particular bringing Esports big time into COD - Nevermind mods if Treyarch have all thats needed to tailor the game for Esports. No doubts they have seen the PC numbers falling and already, since MW2 a lot of Clans/Communities are gone so this is just an extension of whats been happening since MW2 or so.

Pretty sad day for COD followers, especially those who enjoyed the server hosting/admin and for all clans of course. I cant say I am surprised however. Tomorrow is another day [jumping]


If you want to see proper reaction to the news, best not to only visit one or two sites, one in particular of which is so anti-COD it rules itself out automatically because nothing COD does or would do is good enough for them. For that site, even if BO2 had free dedicated servers with full browser, public server files, full modding and mapping tools, it still wouldn't be good enough for them. They just automatically nay-say anything that has the COD brand on it.

The news of this deal around the COD community on sites other than the 2 you visit frequently has generally been favourable - players newer to the COD franchise, who aren't stuck in the past but have gotten to know the game through matchmaking via the modern warfare series, they are pretty stoked that matchmaking has made it into BO2. The fact that it runs on a backbone of a dedicated server is added good news for them. From this point of view, it is a pretty GOOD DAY for the COD community. And by "the COD community" I don't mean people who once played the game but no longer do, but have given it up and now follow another franchise. These people are unimportant to the future of the COD community. They are an irrelevance.

As for your thoughts about a browser being the defining thing for a dedicated server game, how many games out there don't have a browser yet utilise dedicated servers? But, you wouldn't class those games as using dedicated servers? That really makes me LOL.

BTW - your remark about it being news to you that COD has abusive admins. I don't know quite what to make of that. All I can suggest is that you get out more, and quit hiding under that rock you seem to live under. Fact of the matter is that the number one objection to the very idea of dedicated servers within the COD community has been abusive admins, who either kick or ban you for using a class item they don't like, or are too juvenile to handle having the power of a server administrator and kick or ban you for being better than they are at the game. There have been great long threads about the subject over on the Steam forums for both Black Ops 1 and MW3. I suggest you educate yourself and see what others have to say on the subject. Education is a wonderful thing. But it does require some effort.
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zeroy
General Member
Since: Nov 26, 2007
Posts: 1060
Last: Mar 12, 2014
[view latest posts]
Level 8
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 11:28 am
Without entering into those pee-peeing contest you seem to enjoy: I'm only going by the numerous Clan guys I follow or know and by their reaction on Twitter, the pounding PCDev is getting over it and the overwhelming negativity where the post was announced:

http://community.callofduty.com/community/call_of_duty/english/black_ops_2/blog/2012/09/28/pc-online-security-matchmaking-and-server-intel

Whatever way you put it, a lot of communities today are very unhappy about the news. At Mappers United for instance the guys played Black Ops to death - while the dealio wasn't great, it was workable... they moved on to BF3 but BO2 was a real possibility, something after today's news is a non-runner.

I suppose it depends on what side you look at it. My own background has always been around clans/communities rather than loners or occasional COD players so maybe thats why im seeing all the grief from this news...
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Tally
General Member
Since: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 819
Last: Oct 26, 2012
[view latest posts]
Level 7
Category: General Gaming
Posted: Saturday, Sep. 29, 2012 12:20 pm
zeroy writes...
Quote:
Without entering into those pee-peeing contest you seem to enjoy: I'm only going by the numerous Clan guys I follow or know and by their reaction on Twitter, the pounding PCDev is getting over it and the overwhelming negativity where the post was announced:

http://community.callofduty.com/community/call_of_duty/english/black_ops_2/blog/2012/09/28/pc-online-security-matchmaking-and-server-intel

Whatever way you put it, a lot of communities today are very unhappy about the news. At Mappers United for instance the guys played Black Ops to death - while the dealio wasn't great, it was workable... they moved on to BF3 but BO2 was a real possibility, something after today's news is a non-runner.

I suppose it depends on what side you look at it. My own background has always been around clans/communities rather than loners or occasional COD players so maybe thats why im seeing all the grief from this news...


I could lay a great long post on you about how you've only been around in this community for 4 short years and that you're not as "connected" to the clan scene as you like to think (where were you for the previous 5 years?), but I wont. I will simply post a tweet I received from someone who was old school but isn't too old to move with the times:

Quote:
Face Facts Guys #CallOfDuty Is Changing Either Change With It Or Don't Buy It Those are the simple Stone Cold Facts Deal With It. #BlackOps2


That sums it up perfectly. Clans will either have to learn to adapt, or die. It is the old Darwinian principle of survival of the fittest: those who are too old to adapt, will die; those that aren't will survive. There are literally thousands of clans out there that exist on the basis of COD's party system alone. They have survived without the need to own or rent their servers. They simply party up and play. With BO2's competitive features, that will be all the more easy for those who are willing to adapt and move with the times.

As for your mention of Mappers United - isn't that the site that a week ago - long before this announcement - posted a great big front page post saying goodbye to COD? I think it is. Hardly a group open to what BO2 is or could have been, is it?
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