Okay guys, I was thinking of releasing a beta. I have completed the first part of this map. (I split the map into 3 parts, maybe 5 depending on if I want to merge the hq part 1 and 2 maps. The first part is laptop pickup, the second one is where Colonel Markens dies, and the third part is the car chase scene.) The beta is just part 1, the laptop scene. I believe if I release a beta, people can see my map more clearly than watching the video. This way, people can know what to suggest and what is good about my map. So I just need a couple of people saying yes or no to the beta. Please...also I don't have to make a lot of changes after release.

So just say yay or nay.

There is no poll, so...

edited on Mar. 14, 2010 08:48 pm by sam_fisher3000

edited on Mar. 14, 2010 08:57 pm by sam_fisher3000

i say nay! work on it a lil more....trust me, it will be much more better if you put some more work into it and then release a beta for it.

lol... I am currently fixing up some stuff. Part 1 scene is pretty much done, so I don't see a reason not to release. However, I do care about people's opinion on whether I should do this.

I wouldn't release a beta yet. Have you done any more since the video? In your video there where quite a few things wrong or could use a little tweaking, also the boundry of the map was very empty (ie. you can see out of the map and just see skybox)

It also appear to lack 'direction', you know where to go because you made it but i saw no visual aids to point the player in any direction, thats makes the map feel as it has no 'flow' and the player will get lost.

If you release it now, chances are player will play through it a just think 'meh', but your hard work deserves more than that, and all you need to do is add some eye candy and tweak a few places.

Yes, I had added a lot more since the last time. So much more that the player can get killed easily, meaning I added more AI in cool places. I fixed the airplane problem. The door I am still working on. Don't know which I should use rotateroll, rotateyaw, etc, b/c I need to door to land on the floor. I moved the heli drop to another place so they "don't land on top of us".



I thought I always fixed that, I enlarged the map so you wouldn't see the outside, except the humvee part, b/c I haven't continued on yet. Hmm...I will just add more models and prefabs to fill up the the place where players can see the outside of the map.



Well, I don't have any voices yet to tell players where to go. What visual aids? Like something that shows up on the screen to tell players where to go?



The whole point of the beta is like what I mentioned. This way people can suggest problems and comment. You're criticizing now and you didn't even play it yourself yet.

Well, that's 2 for nay and that leaves 0 for yay.

No to a beta. Keep going with it, a level is NEVER finished, if you live by that rule the when you release it'll be as detailed if not more than any dev map.

Rasta suggested visual aids, this does not have to be obvious, Left 4 Dead for instance uses lighting to guide the player(s) through each level.

Lack of direction only causes confusion and this isn't a maze game, even the little things like doors, why can players or AI open some doors and not others? All these things need to be thought about when making something like this.

Don't release a beta, not yet anyway, but keep supplying screenshots and video, that'll help us help you and eventually allow us to play your level and have fun

Visual directions like light, voice overs (like you mentioned), AI leading the way, the design of the level (barriers, blocked off ways that tell player to go somewhere else), stuff like that.

You should have a play test, just don't call it a beta when it isn't... beta means you're feature + content locked and not going to make any more changes except bug fixes.

The people who playtest, get with them on Skype and have them share their screen with you, and watch them play to see where they get lost or die a lot. And do not help them get past the level.

I have barriers, and AI do lead the way.



Hmm....I guess I don't know the definition of the word beta. I am using it cause it just sounds cool...

For playtest, why can't people just download the map and play it on their computer then they post back to this topic. Besides, I don't have people's skype.



Lighting? Never played Left 4 Dead with attention. What is this lighting?



The player doesn't open doors. Only the AI does. There is only 1 door and it is opened by the AI.



Eh...I will just post some screenshots if I get around to it. Videos take up memory too much.

Well, I guess, no "beta" then. Then why don't I get people to download it for playtest and they post here. I don't have people's skype, unless you guys are willing to give me yours.


Yay Nay
0 4

Poll is closed.




edited on Mar. 15, 2010 11:56 am by sam_fisher3000

edited on Mar. 15, 2010 11:57 am by sam_fisher3000

I'll post a yeah but only if you're willing to watch me on Skype play it.

You'll get more valuable feedback by seeing other people play your map than having them post in a thread because they'll forget things, try to be nice, repeat things that have been said in this thread already, or just don't know what you intended on having so don't know what to report.
Like one part of the video you used timeScale change in console for some reason, other people won't know to do that (unless you tell them to, but you shouldn't have to, should be in the map already).

Well, I'll here's some feedback from the video...

1) Shellshock at the beginning seemed out of place because the AI are standing up all fine. Was there a helicopter crash or explosion nearby? Maybe get rid of it or have the AI affected too (animations, yelling).

2) I would hold off showing the objective until the player is done with shell shock and getting up. It killed the cinematic opening mood you were going for.

3) The AI ran too far ahead/fast, sort of like every man for himself leaving the player to die.

4) The fighter jet seemed too low.

5) The AI and player rushed out of the opening area but it didn't seem like there was a reason to. Maybe add in more poo-poo going on in the background like baddies firing or mortars or turrets reigning down.

6) Micromanage the AI when they go up the ladder. There were two instances where the AI climbed up at the same time in each other.

6.5) Maybe you have too many friendlies? It seems like player can just let AI do the killing.

7) Turn God mode off whenever you demo your map like that. Or at the very least turn on demi-god. It's not cool if you die playing your map, but at same time it doesn't look cool if you're invincible... we want to see some sort of rush and adrenaline. If you're making a video like that script things even if just for the demo video because we can't tell whats going on under the hood. Make it look fun!

8) The first helicopter dropping baddies was out of place. I don't think in real combat enemies would drop into a circle of death like that. Maybe have them drop on a building nearby.

9) When fighting from the roof this is like point 5... make more poo-poo happen from the enemies.

10) I liked this part a lot when you went into the garden place, you had enemies in the back area already set up like they knew player was coming, but you also had baddies dropping in like reinforcements. That was really dynamic.

11) Don't know why you used time scale in the garden, probably to spawn more baddies? You should manage that via script (not using timescale cause it's icky, script like a shooting gallery type system where if someone dies a new guy comes).

12) When you entered the building with couches and stuff on the floor fighting... definitely watch someone play that part of the map because you knew where to aim. Other people might find that part really, really hard.

^Don't take any of that of hating on your map or negative criticism, those are just some things I think would polish up the map a lot. :)

Overall I liked the idea to the map, starting off at crash site, making your way through the town, then through a beautiful garden leading up to a disgusting sewer, coming back up breaching buildings, getting a ride out.

One suggestion that would be bad ass, use the jeep jacking animations from AC130 level and have an enemy drive the jeep at the end and the AI and player jack it and drive off. That would be really rewarding after going through hell in the town.

By lighting aids we mean, if you use L4D as a reference to get your attension they use light as the game world is often quite dark (not so much in l4d2) so say for example you wanted to guide players to a particular building then that building would have lights shining from the windows, or a porch light etc...

Since your map is daytime you will need to guide the player by blocking of areas and creating checkpoints, so if you want to guide the player down a alleyway you should make it quite visually obvious and open yet the places around it quite cluttered or blocked, you could use the AI to your advantage by having them rush down the area you want the player to go so they can see there will be a way out at the end, also good use of sounds and effects will help.

Also things like streetsigns can help if the player has been briefed on where to head e.g if your objective is to head to a cafe and you have signs saying ''cafe de cod this way'' well its a no brainer.

And by the way your writing i can see your taking the comments the wrong way, nobody here has said it's a bad map (or campaign) but are suggesting way to improve it, by all means ignore us all it's up to you but if everyone is saying the same things then maybe you need to think to yourself ''are they all wrong?''. You don't want your project to be picked up and played by a few people, maybe get a few short posts like 'nice' and 'fun map' then have it slip into the background when it could be a very good campaign and have a lot of attension.. remember it's all in the detail,if it's visually pleasing you will attract a lot of people.